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July
More on older men and younger women
I got a very interesting e-mail last week from a
young woman whom I'll call "Kate" (not her real
name):
I am 17 years old...and I googled "Older Men,
Younger Women" because I am attracted to older men
and I feel alone in my peer group (despite my many
good friends and wonderful family). I was thankful
to find your post. So many things you touched on
are things that I feel. But I also felt abnormal
and ridiculous for having the feelings I do.
Although I am young, I suppose am one of those
girls you described, "...those who appear outwardly
fully adult may still be in need of our care and
protection." I am in every way mature. I feel more
comfortable with adults than I do with my own peers
thus the need for more attention from the more
mature male. Having said that, I want you to know,
I am a good girl. I know right from wrong...and
these attractions I have for older men always stay
platonic----mostly because I'm attracted to the men
who are safe. But sometimes it pains me because I
feel like I'm building such awesome relationships
that when I become legal, or more eligible to date
older men, they won't see me like that. At that
point, I get upset and I feel so rejected before
anything even began. This usually happens in the
school atmosphere because there are many male
teachers. So many of them seem wonderful because of
the teenage boy scum I go to school with. You
touched on that too--the obvious attraction girls
have because the older male is (hopefully) well
spoken and has a wealth of knowledge and
experience...verses the teenage male who is not any
of those things.
I hope this e-mail makes sense...it's so late
and I am confused by my feelings. My mother knows
how I feel about older men--and she said she
expected it because I am so mature mentally,
emotionally and yes...physically. I want to be seen
and appreciated by men...and for the most part I
am--and I have been for a long time. It is getting
to the point, however, when I want things to
progress and they just can't. Then I don't know how
to behave and I just want to crawl out of the hole
they call high school and just exist in this world
without my age tattooed on my forehead.
Anyway, as much as your post made me feel
slightly exposed, it was comforting because you
seem to know the inner-working of the young female
mind. So, thank you for that. And if you could
extend some advice or something, I would appreciate
it. I apologize if this is scatter brained...again,
it's late, and I'm a bit nervous e-mailing someone
and pouring out all these intimate details---but I
wouldn't have done it if I thought couldn't help me
sort things out a bit.
I asked Kate if I could respond via a post, and
I'm afraid I haven't heard back from her. Given
that her e-mail contains nothing that could
identify her, I'm going to assume it's okay to
respond publicly.
I just checked on Google, and this post is the
#8 ranked site for the query "older men, younger
women." Who knew?
Kate's e-mail really challenged me. In that
January post, I laid out what I believe is a fairly
compelling argument for older men to avoid romantic
and sexual relationships with much younger women. I
was fairly clear that I wasn't worried about women
in their thirties dating men in their fifties; I
was more concerned about young women in their late
teens and early twenties dating men eight or more
years older than themselves.
But yet, where does that caution leave the Kates
of the world? If I can take Kate at her word, she's
an unusually mature teenager. She's still got
plenty of growing up to do, as even the most
sophisticated of youth do, but she's probably right
when she says that she's significantly ahead of
many of her peers. Obviously, she's still a minor,
and she recognizes that she's not yet "legal". But
next year, when she's 18? What then? If all older
men scrupulously avoid dating young women Kate's
age, whom is Kate supposed to date who meets her
intellectual, emotional, spiritual, and yes,
physical needs? I don't think all teenage boys are
"scum", mind you. (My men's rights advocate critics
might suspect that I harbor that conviction). But
I'm aware that many young women, like Kate, mature
at a much faster rate than their male peers. It's
going to be difficult for her to find a real equal
among young men her age, and I'd be giving her
unrealistic advice if I told her that there were
large numbers of mature, sensible, emotionally
grounded and wise 18 year-old men running around.
That doesn't mean that such fellas don't exist,
just that they aren't plentiful!
I think there's a colossal difference between an
18 year-old woman dating, say, a 30-something man
she met at church or through friends and dating a
30-something teacher. Leaving aside the question of
professional ethics (something that the teacher
ought never leave aside), a relationship that
begins with an obvious asymmetry in terms of direct
power is, I think, almost always a profoundly
unhealthy experience for both parties involved. But
if Kate (once she's 18) wants to date an older man
who has no direct responsibility for her academic
development or emotional well-being, what then?
Does an age gap of ten, twelve, even twenty years
or more inherently constitute an unhealthily
asymmetrical relationship in terms of power?
Frankly, I think it depends entirely on the two
people involved, simply because I know too well
just how different 18 year-olds (and some 35
year-olds, for that matter) are from each other. A
hard and fast rule, as it were, simply won't
suffice.
Here's a section of what I wrote in January:
If I were to flirt back, or if I were to date a
student, I am convinced I would send a devastating
message about what older men "really" want.
Young women need older men in their lives who
will respect and care about them, who aren't their
fathers or brothers but who aren't prospective
lovers, either. They need to know that they bring
more to the table than their sexuality. They need
to be seen as complete human beings.
Paradoxically, seeing young women as complete
human beings means that in actions, words, and yes,
even in thought, older men cannot see them as
objects of sexual desire. That doesn't mean that we
(older guys) shouldn't acknowledge that younger
women are sexual creatures. But we must (and the
burden is on us alone here, fellas) love them with
radical unselfishness,and that requires that we
ourselves always refrain from sexualizing them.
I still stand by that. But I wrote those words
not just as a man in his late thirties, but as a
teacher and a youth worker. I see teenagers and
young adults through the eyes of my profession and
my avocation. I've known for years that I was
called to work with young people, and as a result,
I value my role as a mentor and (sometimes) a
"father figure". In my work as a professor and
church group leader, it's absolutely vital that I
never, ever, sexualize the young women with whom I
work. It's essential that I keep firm boundaries in
place, the kind that allow young people to trust
me.
But in my customary enthusiasm, I took a code of
ethics that applies to me personally (and one I had
to grow into) and offered it up as a standard for
all "older men." Obviously, most men my age don't
do the work I do. Most men in their thirties and
forties don't spend both their days (and often,
their nights and weekends) with teenagers and young
adults to whom they aren't related. And I'm not
sure it's reasonable to ask all men to refrain from
exploring romantic relationships with women who are
significantly younger. And Kate's letter reminds me
that it's even more unreasonable to ask all young
women (provided they are legally adults) only to
date men who are no more than five years older than
themselves.
I've seen many, many disastrous relationships
between young women and much older men. But to be
honest, I've also seen a few such relationships
that were marvelous, sparkling, honest, mutually
rewarding, and long-lasting. I think such
relationships are uncommon, often because so many
of the older men who do date much younger women are
struggling with their own issues, issues that an
older woman would challenge them to confront but a
younger girl might not recognize. And of course,
more than a few young women do have unresolved
issues with their fathers that they seek to play
out in a relationship with an older man.
But these are generalities that do not apply in
every instance, as Kate (and others) have reminded
me in the months since my post on the subject. So,
to conclude this long post, here's the best advice
I can give to Kate:
I understand that it's not easy to be where you
are, caught between adolescence and adulthood. 17
is rarely easy for the bright, the gifted, the
mature, the one who isn't thrilled by all that high
school society has to offer! It's natural and
normal to want to be seen and appreciated by men,
and to be appreciated for all that you have to
give. Please know that your teachers, if they love
their profession and genuinely care about you,
ought not only not act on any feelings they may
develop for you, they ought not even make you aware
of them. That's not about infantilizing you, it's
about honoring the very special trust that ought to
exist between a teaching professional who loves
teens and the students who rely upon him.
But Kate, I do think it's possible that in the
years to come, you will find older men to date who
aren't in a position of responsibilty towards you.
Honestly, you're right: all things considered, men
who are a decade or more your senior will likely be
able to offer you things that your male peers
cannot. You're not wrong to want those things, and
I don't think that all older men will be "bad" for
wanting to give them to you. Yes, I've seen a few
-- a very few but a few -- healthy, loving,
supportive relationships between young women just
about your age and men substantially older. Such
relationships are rare, but not unheard of.
Kate, I don't know you. But I can tell you I've
known a few young women who've said things very
similar to what you've said. And I know that in the
end, what many of them really wanted from older men
was not a sexual or romantic relationship, but
validation and recognition and attention. In our
highly sexualized culture, however, they couldn't
believe that a man would really love them and care
for them unconditionally unless they could offer
him something sexual or romantic in return. They
shortchanged themselves, and sadly, they found
older men who reinforced the notion that their
sexuality was the most valuable thing they had to
offer. I don't know if that's what's going on with
you.
Adults always tell teens to be patient, and
teens get tired of hearing it. But if I can give
you a piece of advice, it is to be patient just a
while longer. Let whatever boundaries you have in
place that have served you well stay in place just
a little bit longer. Keep those boundaries in place
especially with the men who have a sworn (even
sacred) responsibility to care for you as your
teachers and mentors. There's nothing wrong with
wanting. But there's much to be gained by waiting,
just a little longer, before "taking the next step"
with anyone, especially someone considerably older
than yourself. Once you become a legal adult, and
(perhaps) are in college, you will begin to meet
many different men who will be unlike those you
knew in high school. You might even find someone
closer to your age who does share your interests
and your passions. Stranger things have
happened.
I wish I had a magic bullet to make this growing
up process easier for you. I know it's frustrating
and confusing as hell. But it's my hope that the
older men in your life today will continue to be
loving, wise guides through that process, and at
your age, that's all that they ought to be.
Please take care.
©2005, Hugo
Schwyzer
* * *
Women really must have equal pay for equal work,
equilaity in work at home, and reproductive
choices. Men must press for these things also. They
must cease to see them as "women's issues" and
learn that they are everyone's issues. - essential
to survival on planet Earth. - Erica Jong
The assorted
musings of Hugo Schwyzer: a progressive,
consistent-life ethic Anabaptist/Episcopalian
Democrat (but with a sense of humor), a community
college history and gender studies professor, an
avid marathoner, aspiring ultra-runner, die-hard
political junkie, and proud father of a small
chinchilla. hugoboy.typepad.com
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